“WE CAN ELIMINATE HAMAS” – the lie they told us

Former IDF Soldier, Benzi Sanders, in his interview with Christiane Amanpour on CNN, who fought on the frontline against Hamas in 2014, goes into detail about why he left the Israeli Army and became an activist against the lies of the Israeli military and government and their flawed plan to eliminate Hamas.

Sanders says: “That’s the lie they told us and that is being repeated today…that we can decisively eliminate the threat of Hamas through a military operation.”

He goes onto to explain how the government in fact strengthened Hamas and weakened the Palestinian Authority which enabled the Oct 7 attack and the war today. He clearly outlines that the burtal Oct 7 attack diid not happen in a vacuum but as a result of the oppression, violence, attacks, bombings, imprisonement and torture of the Palestinian people for decades.”

For all my Jewish friends, especially those criticising my posts, I try and share as many viewpoints by your own people who have first-hand knowledge of the Israeli military and govenrment to ensure that the voices speaking out against the atrocities being commited by Israel against the Palestinians are not coming from one-side only. Please we all ask you to hear these sound-minded voices, because we do not wish harm to any Jew or Israeli and we are only ask that you value the Palestinians and all human beings equally,

@benzisanders @cnn @christianeamanpour

English Script:
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:23:14
(CNN reporter) Welcome to the program. You’ve been listening to some of the reporting just airing just before you. And you’re obviously seeing everything that’s going on around you. Tell me first what has been going through your head and your heart since October 7th?

00:00:23:16 – 00:01:11:28
(Benzi sanders) Well, since October 7th, everything has changed in some ways and in other ways. Everything is… my worst fears are coming true. As you mentioned, I fought in Gaza in 2014. That war was also preceded by a horrific terrorist attack, just like we saw on October 7th. Three Israeli teenagers were kidnaped and murdered, which led to…which led which led to a horrific which led to the firing of rockets, a massive crackdown on Hamas in the West Bank and the firing of rockets and then a ground invasion.

00:01:12:00 – 00:01:46:21
(Benzi sanders) The images that everyone is seeing that I’m seeing remind me very vividly of that fighting. And frankly, it’s it’s my worst fears because many people, colleagues in the Israeli peace camp, in the Israeli anti-occupation camp have been warning for so many years, saying that there is no military solution. We can’t just manage the conflict and maintain a very, very brutal military regime of control over Palestinians.

00:01:46:23 – 00:02:12:05
(Benzi sanders) That actually plays into the hands of Hamas and plays into the hands of these murderous terrorist groups. And so all I’ve been doing since then is trying to share my message, try to share my experience, and try to avoid making the same mistakes that we made in 2014 when Hamas only got stronger after we bombed them and killed thousands and we struck them a decisive blow.

00:02:12:05 – 00:02:34:22
(Benzi sanders) Or that’s at least what I thought at the time. But I only saw afterwards that my own government strengthened Hamas.

(CNN reporter) You know, it’s pretty intense to hear you say that. Look, we know that the majority of your country right now is in favor of this war. They might not be in favor of the current government, but they definitely believe that somehow, somewhere, Hamas has to be defeated.

00:02:34:22 – 00:02:59:24
(CNN reporter) You’re saying it can’t be done militarily. Tell us. I guess the first question really is to you, are you out of step with the majority of your country people right now? And are you able still to talk about, you know, what you saw, what you feel, what you’ve learned, how you’ve changed?

00:02:59:26 – 00:03:23:02
(Benzi sanders) Yeah, Well, I’ll add, you know, I’m not a I’m not a pacifist. I believe that Israel has the responsibility to defend itself against Hamas. And of course, that includes military actions. But I think that right now in Israeli society, there’s a debate going on as to whether this war that we’re fighting should be against Hamas or it should it be against the Palestinian people.

00:03:23:05 – 00:04:03:19
(Benzi sanders) And you have members of this current government who have said since the horrific atrocities that we saw in October, on October 7th against Israeli civilians and the kidnapping of Israeli civilians who are still being held, they have made it clear that they aren’t differentiating between civilians and Hamas. Even last night, a senior member of the coalition sorry, on Saturday night, senior member of the coalition of a member of the cabinet, Bezalel Smotrich, the finance minister and the minister overseeing the West Bank and the Ministry of Defense said that he doesn’t really see a big difference between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.

00:04:03:21 – 00:04:30:02
(Benzi sanders) The Arabs are the same Arabs. So there are many Israelis who disagree with that, and there are many Israelis who are questioning the assumptions and questioning the lies that they’ve been told for so many years. And maybe it is a majority who has believed the lies that our government has told us. But, you know, I think that this is an opportunity for for partners of mine in the Israeli peace camp.

00:04:30:05 – 00:05:05:00
(Benzi sanders) I saw many of my….

(CNN reporter) I want to ask you again about the op-ed, the article you wrote for The New York Times, describing what it was like.

00:05:05:02 – 00:05:24:05
(CNN reporter) You know, in the deployment in 2014 in Gaza. You wrote that some of your soldiers were feeling doubts at that time. And then you wrote your own thoughts on a piece of paper and you wrote this: “I wrote that some members of my team had been tallying the number of soldiers killed and discussing whether this operation was worth the losses.

00:05:24:08 – 00:05:47:17
(CNN reporter) I think it could be worth it, I wrote, as long as we decisively eliminate the threat. That’s the lie they told us and the lie that’s being repeated today, that we can decisively eliminate the threat of Hamas through a military operation”. Benzi How did you come to the conclusion that you couldn’t?

00:05:47:19 – 00:06:17:18
(Benzi sanders) Well, you know, one of the voices that I’ve listened to over the years and I’ve been convinced by is not just not just the voices of human rights activists, but also the voice of the former head of the Shin Bet, Amy Ayalon, who’s the top counterterrorism expert. And for four and a half years in the in the country and he said this openly, he said the only way to decisively defeat the terrorism that Hamas represents is through creating an alternative and creating hope.

00:06:17:20 – 00:06:44:06
(Benzi sanders) And that means working towards a political solution. And our current government has been fundamentally committed to opposing a political solution and to preventing the creation of a Palestinian state and preventing Palestinian independence. So therefore, that’s why I realized that military alone will not defeat Hamas. And and that’s why I think that our government needs to be changed immediately.

00:06:44:08 – 00:07:08:25
(CNN reporter) So let me ask you then as well, because you talk a lot in your op-ed about what you saw in Gaza in 2014. Tell me, because earlier you said you don’t believe that the soldiers distinguish carefully enough between civilians and Hamas fighters. What did you yourself experience to make you say that?

00:07:08:27 – 00:07:32:28
(Benzi sanders) Well, you know, in the area that we went, we were told that all the civilians had fled. And that was true for the most part, but it wasn’t entirely true. We did find civilians. There was an entire family in the second neighborhood that that my unit took over. It was an entire family who stayed behind. And the soldiers, you know, luckily, when they entered the house, they didn’t kill them through live fire.

00:07:33:00 – 00:08:04:25
(Benzi sanders) They gave them food and water. They guarded them for many days. But when we pulled out, the Air Force flew overhead and bombed the entire neighborhood. And eight members of that family were killed. I learned this later. So I’ve seen this with my own eyes. And I’m not and I’m listening today. I’m listening to my own leaders, including who I mentioned, Bezalel Smotrich, who said he doesn’t really differentiate between the Palestinian Authority, which recognizes Israel and wants to negotiate with Israel and Hamas, which is the terrorist organization that carried out these atrocities.

00:08:04:27 – 00:08:21:04
(Benzi sanders) The Arabs are the Arabs. That’s what he said on Saturday night on Israeli television. So it’s hard for me to believe. I don’t believe that. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I don’t believe that Israel is doing everything in its power to prevent civilian casualties based on the statements of members of the Likud and other members of the coalition.

00:08:21:06 – 00:08:44:15
(Benzi sanders) And I think that that’s a result of the fact that this government doesn’t view the Palestinian people as the future partners for making peace with. And they are just convinced that overwhelming military power is going to bring us safety and security. And this is a catastrophic mistake. It’s the same catastrophic mistake that led us to the the horrific events of October 7th.

00:08:44:17 – 00:09:09:13
(Benzi sanders) And we absolutely need to change that. We need our partners abroad. We need the US government also. I’m an Israeli, but I’m also an American. And I expect that the American government also not just pay lip service to the idea of pursuing a political solution. You know, settlements are expanding at a at an incredible rate. Settlers are illegally taking over land, not even according to international law, according to Israeli law.

00:09:09:15 – 00:09:38:03
(Benzi sanders) They’re going out and there are shooting at Palestinian civilians and there’s no…with impunity, there’s no real enforcement against them. And so I think our international partners and allies need to take a stance on the side of the Israelis who are demanding a political solution and are demanding differentiation, and that our government makes sure not to harm and kill innocent civilians.

00:09:38:05 – 00:10:10:13
(CNN reporter) Are you not worried about what you’re saying to me publicly now, being accused of siding with the enemy and the kind of things that are getting some Israelis in trouble?

00:10:10:15 – 00:10:40:20
(Benzi sanders) You know, it’s it’s a risk that I have to take for the future of the people of Israel. You know, siding with the enemy would be ironic for my government to accuse me after my government in order to prevent a Palestinian state actually facilitated the transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars to Hamas and preferred to bolster Hamas and to delegitimize the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian human rights organizations.

00:10:40:20 – 00:11:15:03
(Benzi sanders) They designated Palestinian human rights organizations as terrorist organizations, they categorized Palestinian diplomatic initiatives as diplomatic terrorism. But Hamas, they facilitated the transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars. And they also crushed Palestinian hopes of independence, which also fed the fuel of Hamas, because that’s what Hamas is, the enemy of peace. And when our government committed itself to preventing a peace process and preventing negotiations, they were actually helping Hamas.